“Maybe we should waterboard Jenna Bush”
Published by Fred Soto• November 26th, 2007
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“I suggested Jenna be waterboarded and then she could talk about whether or not she thought it was torture.” — Stephen King
Strange quotes to read in a prominent magazine like Time, but they are very powerful words. Stephen King, in an interview about his upcoming film “Mist”, brought up the issue of real vs. fake news. He can’t stand the fact that Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan flood our news with their “trailer trash” lifestyles, while serious world events are taking place and receiving no coverage.
Yeah. You know, I just filmed a segment for Nightline, about [the movie version of his novella] The Mist, and one of the things I said to them was, you know, “You guys are just covering — what do they call it — the scream of the peacock, and you’re missing the whole fox hunt.” Like waterboarding [or] where all the money went that we poured into Iraq. It just seems to disappear. And yet you get this coverage of who’s gonna get custody of Britney’s kids? Whether or not Lindsay drank at her twenty-first birthday party, and all this other shit. You know, this morning, the two big stories on CNN are Kanye West’s mother, who died, apparently, after having some plastic surgery.
The other big thing that’s going on is whether or not this cop [Drew Peterson] killed his… wife. And meanwhile, you’ve got Pakistan in the midst of a real crisis, where these people have nuclear weapons that we helped them develop. You’ve got a guy in charge, who’s basically declared himself the military strongman and is being supported by the Bush administration, whose raison d’etre for going into Iraq was to spread democracy in the world.
If you are one of the hundred million Bush haters in the world, then the next line will make you fall in love with Stephen King. As for the few pro-Bush Americans that remain, this should give you something to talk about on your private news boards and forums:
So you’ve got these things going on, which seem to me to be very substantive, that could affect all of us, and instead, you see a lot of this back-fence gossip. So I said something to the Nightline guy about waterboarding, and if the Bush administration didn’t think it was torture, they ought to do some personal investigation. Someone in the Bush family should actually be waterboarded so they could report on it to George. I said, I didn’t think he would do it, but I suggested Jenna be waterboarded and then she could talk about whether or not she thought it was torture.
You can catch the article in it’s entirety, here: “Talking with Stephen King - Time Magazine” — don’t go there looking for your fill of politics, it’ll leave much to be desired. It’s an interview with Stephen King on his latest work.
There is a problem with general media reporting and the media is really difficult to paint as respectable anymore. Every major news network is no more credible than the National Enquirer in my opinion. It’s all about making a buck, there’s no sense of duty to the world, humanity, or American citizens and current events. Political agendas (see Fox News) or sensational and trashy shows that focus on mental masturbation by partisan or ‘dumb-as-a-rock’ anchors (see news broadcasts) is now the status quo.
I’m glad Stephen King is busting the media’s chops on the issue, because it’s out of control. I’ll give one example of the latest ‘hot’ website turned TV show, that peddles the porn I described above. TMZ is a disgusting TV show, complete and utter garbage, and yet it frequently cited alongside other “credible sources” by CNN and FOX on the latest ‘breaking news’. The fact that these so-called authorities in journalism are citing a celebrity porn site –may as well be– as frequently as they do, is telling of the direction of American “culture” and “truth” in journalism.
tags:bias, celebrities, communication, journalism, media, News, political, reality tv
Fred Soto is an Attorney and Entrepreneur from the Silicon Valley.
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If King’s wife was being threatened with violence or death, and the best way to get information from a suspect who held the key to her survival was to waterboard him/her rather than making nicey-nice and asking “pretty please, tell us the information,” because no information was forthcoming after that was tried, my guess is that he’d vote for waterboarding.
Then again, maybe he hates his wife as much as he hates the United States.
Stephen King is something close to a living God. It is my hope that he finally assumes his true identity and becomes the king of the world.
I’m a big fan of King myself. He is brilliant in many ways, and his work is fantastic. I think it’s an important issue that he raises and I hope no one will take his words out of context (beyond what you’d see on a blog like this) and use it to harm his reputation. He’s a fascinating man and I’d love to hear more about his views on culture, life, and society.
Nice logical fallacy there Mr. Fred Soto - may I suggest the following? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy#Logical_fallacy
Torture produces false leads. Period.
Michael G, if I was your President I would classify you as an enemy combatant and detain you for years without charging you and without letting you have access to a lawyer. During that time I would order that you be daily waterboarded and sleep deprived. And just like MANY of the GitMo prisoners who have been released the fact that you are innocent would mean NOTHING. Perhaps then you would see a problem with the current state of America “land of the formally free”.
Way to go Micheal G
So lets say that the governement waterboard a suspect whos treathning his wife and the suspect in all pain says thats its Mr.Micheal G who told him to do so ( its a lie ) and then the fbi rushing in your house to arrest you while the primary suspect is beeing able to mutilate,rape and kill his wife !
Superbbbbb !!! There are no jack bauer in this world man stop basing your opinion on 24 god damn show !
I say we waterboard the whole damn bush family. But why stop there? Just suspend them upside down in a 5 gallon bucket of pig shit until the bubbles stop.
You don’t phuk with MY America, I don’t care how much money your daddy has, or how many brain dead fox-viewers you can brainwash into believing your bull.
The constitution. Love it, or get the hell out.
U.S Special Forces are waterboarded as well. But that doesn’t bother Stephen and other maniacs.
Ask your cable operator for Al Jazeera English, it is by far the best news channel out there. It’s a real news channel with real news from around the world.
King would have his fugly-cross-eyed-head cut off in a second if the Islamo-whackjob-terrorists found out about the spew he put on paper….actually, they might very well think that he’s the super-secret 13th Imam come out of his hidey-hole and worship him as their Bitch Supreme….
Waterboarding as torture? Our men and women are subjected to power tools, blow torches, being dismembered alive, rape, etc and liberal wimps equate what is basically high school / college hazing rituals as “torture.”
I guess when your wife and daughters have their clits removed, your son beheaded for wearing western style pants, you can be thankful to Allah that someone never poured water into your face to make you afraid. Yes, Thank Allah indeed.
Fuck waterboarding Jenna, do it to Cheney… Oh, UH, “YH”, Al Jazeera English (now listed on NYSE)is as full of baloney as CNN. They might have actual news about and from Iraq, but who cares, the “truth” in Iraq is easily devined by believing the opposite of what FOX News reporting. And you dont even need to tune in for 2 seconds to get it all.
OMG!theres panties on my head!pleeeeZE!someone take the panties off me!!!arrrghhhhh
Michael G. - Santa Fe, NM Says: I am a complete moron who thinks “24″ plots are real. That scenario you are thinking is TOTAL NEOCON MAKE-BELIEVE. The world does not work like a “24″ episode you fucking retard.
“Political agendas (see Fox News)”
Does this imply that the other networks don’t have obvious political agendas? Surely you’re not that naive.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about what Stephen King thinks about politics. However, I’m glad he’s calling the media to task for their ineffective reporting of the real news.
And you pantywaist neo-con ditto-heading psuedo patriots who would tarnish the collective honor and ideals of America, just so that you can continue shopping, consuming, and accumulating wealth in comparative safety (and that’s really what’s at stake for your kind), you should be ashamed.
Here’s what someone who actually knows (ret. USMC) has to say about torture:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/10/torture_as_an_interrogation_te.html
or google:
Maj. Anthony F. Milavic, USMC (Ret.) American thinker
Torture doesn’t work.
And remember, it’s okay for you to read, become informed, and change your mind. Rush and Bill might not love you anymore, but your country will.
i say we put panties on the heads of all republicans.then have hot naked women stand really close to them and tug on their genitals.see how the bastards like torture then!
Who gives a rat’s ass what “Torture doesn’t work” and Maj. Anthony F. Milavic, USMC (Ret.) think? I don’t.
Why would a person not in favor of the United States sanctioning torture be at all behind anyone doing it to our troops or anyone for that matter? Why would the first thought anyone had was that disagreement with the use of waterboarding automatically says you must be for beheading, raping or mutilation (genital or any other form)?
Maybe he is saying because the terrorists use those tactics we should not. Sounds like he is willing to risk the lives of the ones he holds most dear by keeping our moral high ground and our privacy and our freedom by not sanctioning the same behavior as terrorists. I’m tired of hearing, “They did it first.” Re-read your history and trace back the tit-for-tat that has been going on for centuries before you use that line.
After reading much of his writing, he doesn’t seem to be a Christian, but this sounds more Christlike than those who speak they are Christians but would forget that Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, but put those words to action to his ultimate demise and victory.
JParker,
Our men and women are subjected to power tools, blow torches, being dismembered alive…
are you talking about some TV show you saw ? WTF is wrong with you ? If there was anything even remotely like that happening it would be splashed all over what you probably think is a liberal media. It would be broadcast 24/7.
idiot.
you nutjobs…they’ve waterboarded 3 people in the last 5 years. good heavens you freaks…
who cares about the good things Jenna is doing…she is the daughter of a republican…it’s open season!
Just because someone volunteers for something doesn’t mean it is right to do to people who are in your power. Every day in this world some people consent to being beaten, humiliated and even a few allow themselves to be killed. None the less to beat or humiliate or kill a prisoner is always wrong and illegal. So the fact that some brave soldiers allow themselves to be water boarded does not prevent it from being a crime. Look I know we are all angry and some are even scared, but we can not allow ourselves to lose that which makes us better. If the soldiers didn’t shoot the guards at death camps in WWII it would be dishonorable to not live up to their high standards. We are Americans and we must not bend or give or the bad guys win. Period.
First, you might want to listen to what writers think about politics. They’re the only U.S. citizens that still actually read books. History books in particular. When’s the last time one of you read any book with an opinion different from your own? Good writers understand human nature and political manipulation. Great writers, and King is one of them whether you like his stories or not, are effective because they manipulate your emotions precisely as dangerous politicians do.
Second, you might want to wake up and smell the roses. The current changes stifling freedom in America parallel the steps taken by each of the evil dictators of the past century. America has a couple of advantages those countries didn’t have, but they’re fragile.
Third, of course you’ve all heard of “sleeper cells,” right? Well you might want to know the term originated with Stalin. Now why would a president committed to spreading democracy risk association with one of the most notoriously evil dictators of the past century? Could it be because the technique works?
Finally, the lynch pin to shut down democracy is fear of torture. It’s initiated against folks you can’t identify with - the terrorists in sleeper cells. Next, mild forms of physical abuse become visible on folks you identify with because they spoke up in dissent - tasering the kid in Florida and the speeding ticket driver in Utah. The last step is to shock us with blatantly illegal torture of folks like you and me. That silences any further dissent once you fear it can happen to you.
Go back and study Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, and Penochet BEFORE they became dictators. Each was elected via democratic process. And each shut down dissent. “You are either with us or with the terrorists.” So if you speak out against “us,” you are a terrorists which means you should be water boarded.
In the ’70’s, the FBI used CoIntelPro to create protester violence, which “justified” crack-down with force. If you see lots of this as we near the 2008 elections, you should REALLY pay attention.
We’re not there yet, but the foundation is. Stop trashing each other and study history. Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet - each one’s citizens thought nothing was wrong until a few weeks before the violence began. And then all sat silent, in shock that it happened to them.
Don’t just slam me. Don’t just encourage me. Don’t even believe me. Go read a history book. Better, several history books from different points of view. And then seek the truth. It won’t set you free, but it will chap your ass.
Oh, for the record, I voted for W both times. And I feel sucker-punched for it. But at least I can see who punched me now. Can you? Hint: It’s not W or the Rep. party.
If there was anything even remotely like that happening it would be splashed all over what you probably think is a liberal media. It would be broadcast 24/7.
Al, put yourself some knowledge before coming across like a complete boob.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3587931.stm
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060621/news_1n21iraq.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3585069.stm (this was done just for fun, I guess, since the soldiers were already dead at the time of their mutilation and dismemberment)
We’re not there yet, but the foundation is. Stop trashing each other and study history. Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet - each one’s citizens thought nothing was wrong until a few weeks before the violence began. And then all sat silent, in shock that it happened to them.
I wonder if, after the 2008 elections take place and there is a peaceful transfer of power from Bush to whoever wins the election, you will admit that you are completely and utterly wrong about what is happening in this country?
Or will you take credit for stopping the encroaching fascism you are so sure is taking place under our noses?
And you’re privy to this information, because….?
I’m not one that believes the world is perfect and waterboarding should be abolished, it’s just not gonna happen. If the government gets caught doing it, off to jail the perpetrators go, but they aren’t going to stop. At some point we have to say, this isn’t an issue the public can decide, but they can certainly sway how frequently it is used. People should be free to discuss their views on the moral issue and if and when it is an acceptable course of action.
Here’s the issue, in my eyes: What is America doing about individual rights and enemy combatants? The reason waterboarding is such a controversial issue is because we (the United States) have taken a national position that International rules of engagement do not apply to us. Unilateral actions, preemptive strikes, and violations of the Geneva Convention and other peace treaties are areas that we need to take a close look at. The U.S. government has decided that some rules do not apply to us during times of War. The War on Terror is playing out like a full scale war against a nation rather than defending against extremist tactics from psychopaths in the middle east. Because that is the case, we are going to have issues when INNOCENT people are harmed in a system that doesn’t respect individual rights and the law.
Now, if we could shake out the terror monsters and essentially create sound policy that pays attention to our essence and the core of American jurisprudence –innocent until proven guilty– then we’ll be on the right track. As long as people are fronting and turning away “radical liberal hippies who don’t ‘get it’”, the drama in the media and the international tension will continue to increase. That said, I still don’t condone waterboarding, but I accept that the tactic OR other nastier techniques might be used by special ops in certain situations. In my view, if the “Jack Bauer” or Doomsday scenario is approaching, that is IMMINENT threat to American lives, then it’s up to the discretion of the authorities (HINT, NOT THE PRESIDENT) of the investigation to make the moral decision.
In the end, this is a moral issue, it is about humanity and respecting human life. If we don’t treat it as a moral issue, and if we don’t treat the dissenters (e.g. waterboarding is wrong in ALL situations), then we’ve already lost this war against ‘evil’. We then must concede that we are no different from the evil terrorists that we seek to destroy.
Mr. King please stick to writing terrific books and stay out of political commentary. Waterboarding on Jenna Bush eh? Brilliant Mr. K. Real brilliant. If you’re going to make a political statement, why not come up with something original instead of parroting the democrat party talking points. I expect better…
Hey Idiot Al-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1802211,00.html
I believe you asked for this?
Or you could also look at the offical report- wait, never mind- you can’t.
Better men than you…
So anything that we would just as soon not be done to innocent members of our families constitutes torture? Is that in the Geneva Convention?
Looks like a bunch of wannabe jihadis commenting here. If you all feel that things are so fair in the middle east and feel that Al Jazeera is a reputable news outlet…please feel free to move. Otherwise I’d suggest you sit down, hush, and let the few remaining men in this country that understand what freedom means take care of business.
fascism in the US is on the rise. Elites who only see in black and white need to reinvent themselves because they’re the dangerous people who are leading us today. And they are wrong.
Any sick jack ass who comes even close to justifying waterboarding or tasering as a useful form of establishing national security needs to get a psychological evaluation.
Otherwise if our society lets this slide and the brutalities multiply, we’re going to wake up one day and realize that out civil rights have completely disapeared. We will be living in the constant grips of fear.
So get your lazy asses up off the sofa, turn off the poison tube and help us fight these neo Nazi criminals because otherwise you’ll just end up being a lame marketing statistic and your children will grow up in a fascist society driven by greed, racism and hate.
Don’t know why the Hollywood elite continue to kill their own careers with their self-rightous prattle. The the box office numbers of the slew of newly released Anti-American movies, all of them bombed. King has enough money to retire and he has a right to say what he wants, however, we the people also have a right to not line their pockets with our money. Regarding torture, to prevent having ones head sawed of with a dull sword is something that the liberals don’t seem to recognize. Word of advice, don’t think that the liberals are in the majority on this, we are at war and winning that war, and despite what the misleading pols suggest, a vast number of Americans support the troops and their mission. There is still hope that our millitary working along with the Afgani and Iraqi people can bring be peace to there countries.
Hey Mark…so you’re saying all those evil musketballs we used against the British should have been substituted with cotton candy and milkshakes? I’m sure that would have won us freedom. There are peole who want to kill you…and me…and anyone else here that doesn’t want to live under their flag of sharia law. Maybe we should just send them a a bunch of tootsie rolls and they’ll forget their plans…
I don’t think it works that way bucko. When someone declares war on your way of life…you either raise the white flag(ask the French) or you hurt them so bad that they decide they made a mistake and abandon their plots. Decide.
jl: Two wrongs never make a right. You’re suggesting we stoop down to their level. If I had to make the argument, I’d say “Look, you have to fight fire with fire in order to defeat terrorism, or else they’ll keep playing dirty.” In the grand scheme of things, though, the more stories get out that we’ve captured and tortured the ‘wrong guy’, the more ammunition the ‘bad guys’ get to feed their hate.
In the end, if we aren’t doing anything wrong, guess who the world is going to turn against when they’ve committed atrocities against humanity ? They certainly won’t side with AL Qaida. As long as it’s the United States against the world and our foreign policy dictates international policy, we’re going to be the target of angry violent criminals. Not just that, our allies will not support us against a common enemy.
The fact that allies, Britain, Australia, France, China, the Soviet Union and myriad members of the U.N. are turning their backs on us should give us pause. It’s not to say that our America IS the evil empire that propaganda artists would like to paint us as, but maybe, just MAYBE, our politicians are taking the wrong approach to international policy and public relations.
My point has been made after just seeing “Tronman’s” comment. After saying “let the few remaining men in this country that understand what freedom means take care of business”, I see this guy as bearing the distinct qualities of a manufactured fascist. This comment also smells a little bit chauvinist and macho too, since he is speaking of “the few remaining men”.
He is branding us as jihadis! I should assume that this is an uneducated guess on his part. Or that he works for some flakey news outlet like FOX.
Tobias: Have you seen the Kingdom? For a Hollywood flick, that was pretty ‘real’ to life. I enjoyed it. Also, check out the Unit, I think you’d enjoy that show.
Sorry to disappoint you Mark…it breaks my heart , it truly does. If wanting to preserve the freedoms we have here in the US against being subjugated by Islam or anything else is fascism…well paint me fascist. But in reality the fascist were a far left wing organization…something people seem to overlook…at least the left since it’s convenient for them.
It’s people like Tronman who are very dangerous in America today. These people are so convinced that racism and fascism is the solution that they will sign up with Blackwater and go rape and kill children in Irak or other poor countries. They think it’s a video game because they probably grew up scratching their balls playing nintendo all their childhood and neglecting their chores around the house. People like that have a false sense of reality.
Now hush hush and go make your bed up Tronman.
Mark…when you move out of your mommy and daddy’s basement and get a job paying more than minimum wage that doesn’t involve flipping burgers or asking “Would you like fries with that?” then you will possibly be qualified to make a comment on the current world situation…until that time…please sit in the corner and be quiet…wouldn’t want Santa to not bring you a cool new toy now would you.
After reading the story and the comments, I conclude with the question:
Why are liberals always so stupid?
You know, I keep hearing that torture doesn’t work. But do you know what happens when things don’t work?
They quit being used.
The fact that “torture” is still being used after all these centurys tells me that it does work.
But the information gathered that way is compared with other information to see if it is consistant. False stories will show up.
If anything that I consider unpleasant and would rather not be subjected to is torture then Keith Olberman would be banished from all public places.
As for King? Love his writing. But his views are not my views but he is entitled to them.
I am somewhat baffled by a lot of people that express hostility to religion on one hand and turn around to preach morality and “turn the other cheek” sermons to us on the other.
Don’t you just hate it when people attempt to impose their version of morality on you?
FS,
You didn’t understand my point at all.
There is a legitimate question regarding whether waterboarding constitutes torture. The fact that all U.S. Special Forces personnel and those who go through survival training are subjected to waterboarding suggests that it is not torture. Mr. King’s position appears to be that if a form of treatment is not something that you would be pleased to have innocent members of your family experience, it is torture. I am merely attempting to point out that this defintion of torture is silly.
Using this epistemological device, any type of incarceration is torture. All prisoners of war, including those whose captors are zealous followers of the Geneva Conventions, would be torture victims. We would not only have to close down GitMo, but Folsom Prison and your county jail. I could make a pretty sound argument that, using this standard, Stephen King’s novels constitute instruments of torture. I certainlly wouldn’t want my 12-year old son subjected to one! So Mr. King’s device falls down and we are left with the question of whether waterboarding is torture unanswered.
If you have an answer to the question and a rationale for it, I’d love to hear it. Up until this point I haven’t seen anyone here offer one.
This is not our world,it is only in our care and we must hand it over to our children! The way we make it is how our children will have to live it! Someday a young man or woman will wonder why or how Mom and Dad thought that being “Sheeple” would make the world better for their Offspring! Trouble is, history seems to show that Americans think of pleasing themselves - not their children! Sit back and bitch instead of getting up walking a path that your children will be grateful for!
Michael G is obviously a sick and suffering wingnut maniac…and a troll to boot.
Don’t feed him and he’ll fly away back over to Wingnut Central - HotAir - from which he came.
# stephenKing Says:
November 26th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
i say we put panties on the heads of all republicans.then have hot naked women stand really close to them and tug on their genitals.see how the bastards like torture then!
Where do I sign up?
jl: Thanks for the clarification, you’re right I misunderstood what you were trying to argue.
There is a lot there to dissect in the comments, I’ll take another look in the morning, but here are some questions and a partial response.
Isn’t there a distinction that must be made when comparing crime and punishment within the confines of a legal system like that found in the U.S. against torture that might be employed against ’suspected’ terrorists that may end up being innocent? It reminds me of the death penalty, many Americans have died due to legal punishment. In order to get to that point, it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime ‘justifying penalty of death’ was committed. In an actual War, however, there is no process and guilt can in some cases be defined based on ‘what side you are on.’
The better question to ask is, how do you justify any form of torture — waterboarding, or otherwise– OUTSIDE of the scope of the doomsday/Jack Bauer scenario? If the answer is that it is NOT justifiable, then I think we’re on the same page. As for diminishing waterboarding or trivializing it as ’something other than’ torture, I don’t agree that’s a good way to defend interrogation techniques, particularly given our history. If you recall, the Nuremberg trials led to some criminal indictments. Waterboarding was the only form of ‘torture’ considered, and the U.S. prosecuted it to the full extent of the law. (punishable by death)
Waterboarding may not be as harsh as say beheading, or chopping off body parts, or other more barbaric acts, but the issue of waterboarding is debatable until there are adequate protections for people who may be innocent of any wrong doing. I’m not saying we give them due process of law, but something has to give on that issue. When we start defying American core values in order to fight ‘evil’, it is my opinion that we are dirtying our hands and making it difficult to push ourselves as ‘good’.
That creates a host of problems for the United States when it attempts to garner support for our currently unpopular war. I know I didn’t answer your questions entirely, as you know, this isn’t a black and white question. Perhaps that was your point.
One hundred million Bush haters is quite a conservative number, I think.
if someone waterboarded me i would say exactly what they wanted to hear, so it works on actual people we need information from and people that are mistakes, which does not negate the fact its torture.
rather, we should just reflect on history and find out how the americans interrogated the nazis during and after WW II.
we played chess with them, and it worked.
Tronman:
“If wanting to preserve the freedoms we have here in the US against being subjugated by Islam or anything else is fascism…well paint me fascist.”
Which freedoms? Obviously you’re not counting the rights to a fair trial or privacy, or else you can’t possibly support the current administration. You’re giving up more freedoms than we are supposedly gaining.
I will also address how outwardly racist this comment is. Please give me an example of when the Islamic faith attempted to control or convert you in any way. Of any religion attempting to exert their control over this country, you choose Islam? Really? Maybe I’m just not paying attention, but I guess I missed all the Islamic politicians and legislation we’ve been passing lately that is “subjugating” our country. This is a ridiculous and unfounded claim.
The terrorists may justify their actions with their faith in part, but their primary cause for attacking us has been our intrusive politics in the Middle East. To blame the Islamic faith itself is totally absurd and ignorant.
So yes. I paint you a dirty fascist.
Meestuh Queen
I will do every thing to organize your demise.
You want food for thought.
On Sept 11th, 2001, approximately 3,000 innocent people, mostly US citizens, were denied their rights to live. I don’t give half of single shit about what all of whiney hippies believe about torture or any of their other nonsensical shit. Here’s some ideas for you all to chew on…
1. The US Constitution is NOT a suicide pact. It is an imperfect document written by man for man over 200 years ago. It MUST be allowed to evolve as the situation requires and, I don’t know if you all noticed, but when a large swath of the population of the world decides to play jihad on the USA, it’s time to make appropriate changes to protect us all. These are things our forefathers could NEVER have envisioned. I refuse to give up my right to live because the liberal brainwashed left thinks ideals are more important than COMMON SENSE.
2. The Bush haters all need to have their heads examined. Seriously, such built up hatered towards one man, like he controls the world… for what? He doesn’t control the world. The fact is that the haters are blaming him for everything from 9/11 to the “global warming.” In reality, they are blaming him FOR THEIR OWN SHORTCOMINGS, FALLACYS AND FEARS. It’s sad. It’s dangerous. In fact, it is completely self destructive blaming him for things he has NO CONTROL OF, because among other reasons, there are too many stupid, gullable people who will believe the conspiracy theories and lies. THAT is dangerous.
3. Like it or not, there are millions of people throughout the world who have been brainwashed since birth to hate the USA, Jews, democracy, and anything not pleasing to their cult we know as Islam. Islam is a problematic way of life (not just a religion people) which takes away the individuals rights to think and act freely. They subjugate their women. They subjugate any who are not Muslim. This has been going on for 1,400 years since the koran was written. THIS IS NOT GOOD. THIS IS BAD. This is not due to “our foreign policy.” This is not due to “the way we have treated muslims in the past.” It is due to the fabric of their religion. It is their way. Look it up. Also note that NOTHING, not a damn single thing has ever come out of muslim society for the benefit of mankind. Not a single invention, vaccine, piece of technology or anything has been created by their death cult. Only death. THINK ABOUT THAT. DO SOME FRIGGIN RESEARCH. I’m so tired of people blindly defending this shit.
PEOPLE, GET SOME DAMN COMMON SENSE INTO YOUR BRAINS BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.
THIS IS REALITY. Reality is scary. DEAL WITH IT.
Actions Affecting Eligibility to Practice Law
Effective Date Description Case Number Resulting Status
Disciplinary and Related Actions
10/14/2000 Resignation with charges pending 00-Q-13366 Resigned
8/25/2000 Vol.inactive(tender of resign.w/charges) 00-Q-13366 Not Eligible To Practice Law
So, Himes, not sure what you’re trying to post there. It looks pretty bad, scandalous even, my reputation is surely ruined!
Why do you hate freedom and puppies, Stephen?
JTE, 3,000 dead is a paltry number compared to USA’s illegal war in Iraq that has left a million dead, tortured, abused and displaced. Try coming to grips with the reality that USA is not the world. I know it’s hard for you, but just try, mmkay?
Just for once can the debate be productive. I can not ever remember the right using Chelsea as a case point. I understand the point but poorly worded by the wordsmith. If Jenna had been shooting at G.I.s and had info that could save your sons life, would you try to get the info?
The problem with hyperbole is some here are serious about their hate for the Bushies.
Samir, what war is legal? Your arrogance mimics what you attribute to the USA. I am still uncomfortable with nation building and the former Secretary of Defenses stupid/stubborn idea that staying the course actually was a plan. But you act as if wrong can only be done by the USA.
The middle east is a trap. Everyone that has tried to help that region ends up being part of the problem. I am sure Hillary will pacify radical Islam until that inaction produces another 9/11. A self-fulfilling prophecy would be to pull out of Iraq, watch the mayhem that follows and blame the Bushes for the failure.
I could care less what Stephen King thinks about George Bush, or the media. And frankly, I could give a hoot what Fred Soto thinks along those lines. If King believes waterboarding is in the same league as beheading captives, then he’s addled and has been reading too much of his own crap.
No doubt King would agree, electrocuting genitals should be left to the pursuit of sexual pleasure; this enlightened experience is even better when wearing a leather mask and dog collar while using a couple of whips to keep things in a state of heightened orgasmic levels.
How many here are members of The Vault?
Mapplethorpe’s imitators will take your picture. For a small fee of course.
Maybe we should lock King in solitary confinement for a few months and have him comment on if that’s torture. Or at least put him in a jail for a few years. I mean that’s the logical extension of his comments unless of course he doesnt support the US justice system.
And some commenters here are calling him brilliant, that’s funny.
As for waterboarding, it’s been authorized a grand total of 3 times. All of which occurred in the years right after 9/11. If it will dry all the tears for poor Khalid Sheik Mohammeds horrible suffering, fine call it torture if that’s your definition. It’s certainly not pleasant I would imagine, but that’s the point then isnt it.
I’ve no problem using waterboarding, a technique we use on our own military elite for training, on someone like KSM if authorized by the highest levels in rare special cases. If you do, cry some more.
the point a lot of americans miss…is that the REAL terrorist do not fear death,as they make painfully clear with their bombing methods..they will give false information in a heartbeat to further their goals..america used to take the high road, used to be the worlds moral authority.. now, its like malcolm x said,..”by any means necessary”…how long before the rest of the planet follows americas lead??…preemptive strikes, secret prisons, middle finger to the geneva convention and anyone who gets in the way of(super unleaded)democracy ..we have sown..next will we reap??? i love america and hope its not too late to stop the madness.
“On Sept 11th, 2001, approximately 3,000 innocent people, mostly US citizens, were denied their rights to live.” A small number compared to those who die from criminals within their own country, everyday.. rapes, murders, thefts, but I don’t see any criminals getting waterboarded.
In fact all we do is lock them up for years and then release them, calling them reformed. A nice little scam for judges & lawyers, feigning justice while insuring their cash flow. “They subjugate their women” rape statistics for 2005 alone 93,934. And that’s just the ones that were reported. Here’s a novel idea, why don’t we stop ******* around with other peoples countries and take care of our own mess. Choke on that reality..
Everyone who supports torture should be tortured. It will be really funny when all these rightwingnut bushdicks admit to raping their six-year-old daughter after one minute of waterboarding, and admit to raping their three-year-old son after five seconds of tasers applied to their genitals. Then all these psychotic goons will go to prison for the rest of their unnatural lives, and learn AAAALLL about the torture they so happily espouse, the coward hypocrites.
Everyone who supports the bushdicks had better have every single eligible family member on the front lines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unless every last person you know and care about is in harm’s way, then you are not entitled to an opinion, much less have the right to support sending OTHER families’ children to be killed so that the bushdicks can drive oil to over a hundred dollars a barrel.
All neocons too old to be on the front lines should be shot without a blindfold, period. Scumbag traitor whores.
Torture the bushdick brats? The wartime-deserter and his Nazi puppet-master Dickless Cheney get their remote excuse for an orgasm by watching torture, but sane people don’t. Just remove them from the planet. I don’t even care that their decomposing bodies add to the greenhouse effect, so long as they’re eliminated entirely from the gene pool.
If a trillion pages of proof of bushdick lies, and treason, and war crimes, and crimes against humanity, isn’t enough to get bushdick followers to quit their seig-hailing, then they should all be dumped over a cliff like the lemmings they are. The vicious slimy piles of dog vomit perpetrating their “endless war” on innocent people, like it’s a video game, make Saddam Hussein look like Mother Teresa.
Repukelicans is a good name for the vomitous “we support other people dying” hypocritical cowards.
Some of you need to get a few facts straight.
First, it’s been proven on several occasions by many different studies that information obtained via torture is not reliable. Not only that, but it’s common sense - wouldn’t you say anything to stop the torture?
Second, trying to justify it by stating that our people are tortured by our enemies is just retarded. Would you support us flying planes into another countries buildings and killing innocent civilians? I would hope not. If we are to defeat our enemy we should never stoop to their level. I don’t know about you, but “he did it first!” didn’t work when I was 10 years old, I was told “two wrongs don’t make a right”. I learned that lesson well, and I wonder why more of us haven’t.
You are afraid, and possibly rightfully so, but do not let your fear steal your humanity.
[…] But let’s close on a cheerful note: Writer Stephen King has suggested that Jenna Bush be waterboarded so Dad and his henchman can have a first-hand, trusted-source determination of whether it […]
This entire discussion is based around an ambiguous question.
Is waterboarding torture? Put that way, the answer is clearly yes and no.
Forms of simulated drowning have been used within the U.S. for centuries in our educational system. Indeed, FDR was a proponent of such practices as a form of punishment at the time he was in school. As described in, “Roosevelt: The Lion and the Fox”:
“….bend him face upward over a trough, and pour basins of water over his face and down his throat until he went through the sensations of drowning. ”
I once went swimming and accidentally gulped some ocean water. My lungs got a dose of H2O and I felt the sorts of sensations you associate with drowning. I recovered, found oxygen, and returned to swimming.
In both these examples, we find water providing the catalyst to discomfort in a manner that is clearly not torture. So under what circumstances would simulated drowning be considered torture. Not under the circumstance in which it produces fear. Horror movies and rollercoasters would then too require a similar brand. Not ingesting water into the lungs; this occurs on a daily basis and hasn’t stopped countless surfers and swimmers from enjoying water as a recreational utility.
Only when the person is being harmed can it truly be considered torture. I will now direct you to the description in a very poorly written wikipedia article. It currently states:
“Although waterboarding in cases can leave no lasting physical damage, it carries the real risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries as a result of struggling against restraints (including broken bones), and even death.[5]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
This article is describing simulated drowning as almost always harmful. This is innaccurate, however, taken to the extreme that this article suggests is most certainly harmful.
The issue isn’t deciding whether or not simulated drowning is a form of torture; used humanely it clearly isn’t. The real issue is defining how much is too much.
Regarding the value of information obtained through torture versus interrogation:
I fear that those stating that torture produces false information are frightfully ignorant of basic human psychology. I will provide the most simple explanation possible.
On one side of the brain we have our memory and language capacity. On the other, we have creativity and inventiveness. When we respond truthfully, less work is required of the brain as both the language center and memory are closely connected. When we lie, the brain requires more time, for it must first check the memory bank to search the truth, decide that to be innappropriate of a response, then request additional information from centers of the mind responsible for creativity. This process then culminates in data being sent (from the creative centers) to language centers within the brain and then finally uttered. This why a person often pauses when they lie.
When one is dying, or perceiving themselves to be dying, only the most primal instincts will remain. The loudest and most pertinent of these is the need to survive. Knowing that a response can save them, the person feeling the threat of death will search for the QUICKEST answer. This is invariably the truth as it takes much more time to formulate a lie.
That is how torture takes advantage of basic primal instincts and why it is much more successful than less extreme forms of interrogations.
To those who believe that we have violated the geneva convention will have to tell me exactly what war it was in which we violated it. You see, the only war I’m familiar with currently occurring is the war on terror, in essence, against those who do not represent any national interest or wear a uniform. Incidentally, the Geneva convention was conceived with only uniformed soldiers in mind and in writing. Thus, it wouldn’t even be technically possible for us to violate it within the confines of the war on terror.
“When we start defying American core values in order to fight ‘evil’, it is my opinion that we are dirtying our hands and making it difficult to push ourselves as ‘good’.” —Fred Soto
Waterboarding was quite common in nearly every American war, including the vietnam war. The simple fact of the matter is, is that its use has diminished greatly over the past few decades. It’s been used less under Bush than it was under Clinton and so on. We are not just “starting” to use it. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of history. You probably think Bush started the wiretapping program too. (Here’s a hint: The President who used wiretapping most extensively was FDR, and the president who started the currently used NSA wiretapping program was Clinton.)
I will now highlight a particular post made by “The Die Hard”
“Everyone who supports torture should be tortured”—The Die Hard
Incidentally, you are supporting torture by suggesting that those with a particular opinion be tortured; for holding that opinion. Since that opinion includes wishing torture on others, you yourself would have to be included within that group to be tortured. Congratulations, you have just requested that you be tortured.
“The wartime-deserter and his Nazi puppet-master Dickless Cheney get their remote excuse for an orgasm by watching torture, but sane people don’t.”——–The Die Hard
In this statement you suggest that “sane people” illicit no pleasure from torture. This is horrendously ironic because you also espouse pleasure just at the thought of those whom you disagree with being tortured:
“It will be really funny when all these rightwingnut bushdicks admit to raping their six-year-old daughter after one minute of waterboarding, and admit to raping their three-year-old son after five seconds of tasers applied to their genitals.”—-The Die Hard
And in this statement you call for the execution of those who think differently than you:
“All neocons too old to be on the front lines should be shot without a blindfold, period. Scumbag traitor whores.”——-The Die Hard.
It seems odd to me that you would be very much against torture (self contradictions aside) yet suggest we execute people for holding different beliefs.
I could go on, but I think the point has been made about this particular post.
Fred Soto, I have an additional question in regards to this statement:
“Political agendas (see Fox News)”—-Fred Soto
It is quite all right for one to hold opinions on various things without need for intense study, but if one is expected to speak from knowledge, from authority, one should just “stick to the facts”.
There are many problems regarding determining whether a source is biased or not, as the question largely stems from one’s own bias. Thus, studying media bias has always been troublesome. There have been numerous studies which have indicated a large tendency towards leftwing ideology in news media, however, once again they have largely been imperfect and thus subject to personal interpretations. In 2004, UCLA released the first genuinely scientific study of media bias; first and foremost to discover if it existed, and second in what state and degree if it did. You can find the UCLA article here:
http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx?RelNum=6664
The reason I bring this up, is that the example you cited as being driven by a political agenda, is indeed the most unapplicable.
Despite a common perception otherwise, Fox leans to the left, only slightly, but neverthless to the left. All other major televised news organizations lean to left as well, only farther. While I don’t doubt there exists a political bias within the confines of Fox news, its the weakest example you could’ve possibly summed up to support that point. A bit of research may have prevented this mistake.
Mr. Soto, after reading more of your site, I have come to the conclusion that you hold a distinctly left, perhaps far left, ideology. This would explain your perception of “Fox News” as being right wing. After all, it certainly is a good distance to the right of you, though much closer to the middle. I sincerely hope you try to put personal perceptions aside and approach the question of media bias armed only with logic, and facts. You might be surprised by what you find.
I had something to say, then gradually lost my motivation reading these comments. People are thick.
Huh. Stephen King has an opinion. Instead of waterboarding, detainees should be forced to read every book by Stephen King after 1986, or watch Maximum Overdrive until they tell everything.
I would rather have my fingers crused by vice grips than read “It” again.
For all you people claiming torture just results in false information, are you really that stupid? Do you think the torturer, upon getting the information says: Thanks, that’s what we wanted, you can go home, now?
No, you morons. They keep the guy until the intelligence can be verified. If it turns out to be false, then, uh, he gets tortured some more.
And, since the average guy who is getting tortured probably has enough brains to figure this out (more than some of you apparently), he gives correct information the first time.
Don’t confuse torture for intelligence with torture for ‘confession’ of a crime. In which case, the truth is NOT what is desired, but a propaganda coup.
liberals like stephen king would want to hug and cuddle islamo-fascists and try and sit down and listen to them, imagine if people like stephen king were around during world war 2, they would want to hand flowers to the nazis and sit down and talk with them while they steam-rolled all over europe, stephen king stick to writing books from now on
For all of you idiots who keep whining, “but they do it to us” or “what if they did it to your wife”, bullshit… stop and think for a second. Aren’t we suppose to be better than them? When do two wrongs make a right? Torture is just plain wrong and should never be used by anyone. Period.
Mister M. I watch Fox News and CSPAN almost exclusively when I’m not reading it online. I occasionally watch CNN and MSNBC. I’m a subscriber to Human Events, Giuliani, Ron Paul, and Clinton.
I believe everyone carries a bias that is defined by the environment in which they were raised. That said, I’m not oblivious to the strengths of the Republican party, I just don’t think they are there anymore. Limited government, family values, ‘compassionate’ conservatism are all phrases that no longer seem to have value in the GOP. Now, we’re left with the super “patriots” post-9/11. I don’t think it’s entirely out of a love for country, so much as it is nationalism, a rise of fascism, and a polarization of American government.
During strong polarizing times, any strong position you take is considered highly partisan. I’ve been attacked plenty by left-leaners for being a radical rightwing asshole Republican. I am called a liberal or “paranoid and delusional” by right-wing hardliners for despising the government’s leadership on issues I care about. The problem of course, is being pro-War vs. anti-War puts you in a unique position in the United States. Here, it seems that the party polarizers WANT a divided nation. Either you are “with us or against us”, right?
So yes, I’m against the Iraq War, particularly more so at how it arose and because we’ve turned a blind eye to otherwise illegal or inappropriate government initiatives. Fox News caters to the pro-War agenda, so you’re right, my bias against Fox News could be called “far left liberal since I think it’s a right-wing site”, that’s your opinion, I’ll accept it. If I had to pin a big shiny note on my forehead that gave away my ideology, it would be difficult. I’m libertarian in my leanings, but the using the traditional two dimensional political spectrum, you can call me a Clintonian moderate.
I’m Christian, family is evangelical and Catholic, dozens have gone to war… many come from humble backgrounds and yes… we love our country too. My disgust with drawing the distinction between “pro-War America” and “anti-War anti-American un-American un-Patriotic America” is the reason you see my resistance to organizations like Fox News, “fascism” and the “neo-conservative” movement.
I hope that helps, M. For what it is worth I’m very open to conservative ideas. However, it is my disappointment with what I perceive as attacks on my character, by people who know nothing about me, that make me hostile towards this movement within the GOP.
It is really sad that we even are having a debate on the legality and morality of torture these days in USA. It should be unanimously rejected in all its forms. That it is not shows how far this culture has fallen. RIP, America.
I’m so afraid that people halfway around the world, with limited or no military strength are going to come over here and physically force their ways on us. I’m so naive to actually believe that our superior military and the corporate rulers of our land will actually let that happen, that I’ve locked my family into a gated community, in preparation for the holy war against the super-scary-islamo-fascist-cyborg-soldiers.
Remember, these people cannot stand their land, and have no real significant ties to it–after all that is why there is no real conflict in that region. Right now, millions of dangerous arabs are abandoning their homes and coming to the U.S. (armed with rocks and home made bombs) to destroy us.
I’m scared!
I’m scared too, somebody hold me.
“It is really sad that we even are having a debate on the legality and morality of torture these days in USA. It should be unanimously rejected in all its forms.”
There’s really nothing to debate. I would employ torture (I’m talking about real torture, not crap like waterboarding) against people who fly little American girls into the sides of buldings with no qualms whatsoever.
Not a debating point, simply a statement of intent.
And, I really couldn’t care less whether that offends leftoid googoos or not.
“He can’t stand the fact that Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan flood our news with their “trailer trash” lifestyles, while serious world events are taking place and receiving no coverage.”–Horror story writer
If they didn’t do stuff like that then you wouldn’t be getting interviewed by Time.
Do you seriously believe the pulp trash you write is any different or more important than Britney’s pop songs?
What an ass.
Wow “Decaying”. There’s the proof right there.
You start off with “Aside from the fact that no one can actually discuss things anymore…”, then turn to we should kill everyone (only Americans though).
No wonder this country is being pulled down into the toilet. People like you, you moron!
Sure, the press spends too much time on nonsense like Britney and Lindsey Lohan. But King, and you Fred, seem to think they haven’t spent enough time beating up on Bush. That is a joke. There have been thousands of stories, books, movies etc. about the war, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, FISA etc etc and practically all of it negative and hostile to Bush. But I guess if reporters don’t just come out and call him a chimp, a liar or a nazi it’s not good enough.
The major issue is if waterboarding is torture or not. No doubt it seems that everyone is in agreement that it is, there is no question that it falls under the rank of torture.
What concerns me is how people in our country are now trying to make excuses that its not so we can keep doing it. Hence the “debates” in the media. What is truth? Is it reality or is it what others say it is, and when is that blurred?
In this forum, people have said that Fox News is balanced, truly it is not, just like CNN is not. No 24 hour news network in this country is going to be balanced. Let’s face it we live in a era where everyone has an agenda, be it political, or just to simply have you by their product, capitalism has spilled from our material objects to selling our ideals.
Objective journalism is a dead concept no longer “practiced” by even the local news anymore. I see it all the time on the 6 o’clock news and the 10 o’clock news, when I even bother going to my parents to watching it. something political comes on, and the news anchors voice changes and reflects their beliefs.
Maybe you think that’s just me reading into things way too much, my republican parents did, then I got an e-mail from my mother about a week later telling me that I was right, both her and my marine father admitted they began to see it.
But is that the truth, or did they see it because I said something about it?
My wife says if your going to allow waterbording, then allow it all. Cut off their fingers, shoot their child in front of them whatever, if your going to let them do one, let them do it all. Because when you allow one, you leave room to allow it all. It’s escalation pure and simple. Let them do waterboarding, after a while when that doesn’t get results they’ll move on to the next one on the list and so on and so on.
Dissent my fellow Americans and members of the human race, is, to quote Bush, “Uniquely American.” We are given this freedom, guaranteed to us since the birth of our nation. Thus by those laws and on those old white Masonic graves to which we have erected monuments to, if Stephen King wants to suggest waterboarding Jenna, Let him do so and remember why is allowed to it.
Vanhorton Says: “The major issue is if waterboarding is torture or not.”
The issue is that a clown like Stephen King scolds the media for not talking about waterboarding enough, which is BS. There have been literally hundreds of stories on the subject. Google it.
And here’s the follow up t-shirt, etc.:
http://www.cafepress.com/monkeygroupie/4161301
Dissent isn’t a “uniquely” American concept, it is a Democratic concept.
America is wonderful when Democracy is functioning as a free democracy. Liberty is wonderful, when it is functioning as true liberty. Like love, if liberty is conditional, it really isn’t liberty at all.
Everything this country stands for is fantastic, but we’ve betrayed that in some ways. The reason I give the President so much hell is because of garbage quotes like “Dissent is uniquely American.” It’s a disregard, dismissal, and spite for the very liberty that he claims to defend.
I don’t see traditional GOP values in President Bush and I do not see the President as a liberator. Prior to my anti-Bush tirade, I was moving over from the DNC to the RNC, I wanted badly to be a part of the Republican party, it went hand in hand with my faith, but President Bush’s time in office has left me greatly disappointed. You’re right, I don’t think the President, his administration and the movement that got us into this mess has received enough flack.
Bloggers and writers taking these people to the woodshed is very different from the “free press” going after them. The other reason I am hard on the President is what I perceive as a taint of corruption on democracy. There is this foul odor that has attached itself to government because we’ve refused to adhere to our moral and legal principles. The War on Terror has given us a convenient excuse to look the other way when we break the law, and the irony is the result means less freedom, more rules, and a disregard for American values.
“There’s really nothing to debate. I would employ torture (I’m talking about real torture, not crap like waterboarding) against people who fly little American girls into the sides of buldings with no qualms whatsoever.”
Nice appeal to emotion. You forget that the Pentagon was also targeted, a legitimate one in my opinion.
I know it’s a very touchy subject and I don’t like to censor speech, but can both sides please refrain from using children or threats of violence as a tool for promoting political opinions and/or projecting animosity? Thank you for respecting the forum and right of others to share their views on the issue.
You can censor anything you want to, but it won’t change the fact that members of Al Qaida murdered little American girls on 9/11/01, and it also won’t change the fact that people like me support the use of harsh interrogation techniques or even outright torture against captured terrorists because they do stuff like intentionally kill little American girls.
What you do with the information I present (censor, ignore, respond, whatever) is up to you.
“Nice appeal to emotion.”
It’s not an appeal to emotion because I’m not making a (false) logical argument, I’m just telling you how I feel about it.
“If the soldiers didn’t shoot the guards at death camps in WWII it would be dishonorable to not live up to their high standards.”
Yeah, but they did shoot guards at death camps.
So, I don’t think that argument really holds water too well.
I actually think TMZ is good - somebody should take that approach to political reporting. Rake that muck!
Torture works.When I tie my wife up in the bed, she will do anything..
I don’t think I know you Robert, but I suspect that it’s torture whether or not you tie your wife up!
You start off with “Aside from the fact that no one can actually discuss things anymore…”, then turn to we should kill everyone (only Americans though).
No wonder this country is being pulled down into the toilet. People like you, you moron!
Oh please.. don’t try to blame our countries corruption on me you little bastard. I’m not the one ignoring the problems just because they’re unpleasant.
Is torture right NO!
Is waterboarding torture? Who cares? It still isn’t right.
Using the phrase ” An eye for an eye” doesn’t make it right.
The only reason why it is acceptable is because it’s what we have at our disposal in our arsenal of tools. Regardless of wether it works or not, people have been and will continue to be tortured in attempts to gain information. It just that simple wether we like it or not.
To those that oppose tortune, I say fine, you’re asolutely right to dislike it, but if you can offer no other way of getting people to divuldge information
in times of war and moments of extreme circumstance…
What concerns me most about this topic is the argument on whether or not torture works. I quote Mister M.:
“On one side of the brain we have our memory and language capacity. On the other, we have creativity and inventiveness. When we respond truthfully, less work is required of the brain as both the language center and memory are closely connected. When we lie, the brain requires more time, for it must first check the memory bank to search the truth, decide that to be innappropriate of a response, then request additional information from centers of the mind responsible for creativity. This process then culminates in data being sent (from the creative centers) to language centers within the brain and then finally uttered. This why a person often pauses when they lie.
When one is dying, or perceiving themselves to be dying, only the most primal instincts will remain. The loudest and most pertinent of these is the need to survive. Knowing that a response can save them, the person feeling the threat of death will search for the QUICKEST answer. This is invariably the truth as it takes much more time to formulate a lie.
That is how torture takes advantage of basic primal instincts and why it is much more successful than less extreme forms of interrogations.”
You see, according to this description, torture works at extracting information from the guilty. But, what if you are innocent? What if you keep truthfully insisting that you are not a terrorist, and they think you are just lying and keep torturing you until you “tell the truth”? Quickly you will realize that the torture will not stop until you make something up that will please your torturers. So you make up a lie, reacting to survival instincts by giving the ONLY answer that will stop the torture. Having no access to a lawyer or a court means that you have no way to prove yourself innocent.
[…] Stephen King renews my faith, “I suggested Jenna be waterboarded and then she could talk about whether or not she thought it was…. […]
Michael, get waterboarded by the government then talk. Actually, take that great contextual example of, “how would you like it if they had your wife,” and put it into the context of “oh my god, these assholes think I know something about this guy’s wife that I don’t and they are going to torture me to try ad find it out,” which is what water boarding is. Because do you know what the government does, Mike? They don’t listen when you scream that you had nothing to do with it, they don’t care that you are a citizen, they waterboard SUSPECTS — NOT criminals, as you have assumed — but suspects. And the guy waterboarding you, isn’t the guy who arrested you so he doesn’t care; he is the guy who waterboards people, no matter how they scream or how they profess their innocence. The government gathers up a lot of suspects, Mike, and once in a while, they get the bad guy — but they will be sure to waterboard the lot just to be sure. And speaking of hating America, why don’t we waterboard Thomas Jefferson to see if he feels that a free society should condone it, or if it is more worthy of a fascist gulag. I am not a liberal elite or a hippy — I am goddamn working class salesman, just like me father and his father before — but you sir are an ingrate, and not worthy of calling yourself free. READ THE CONSTITUTION OR KILL YOURSELF.
[…] King thinks maybe Jenna Bush should be waterboarded so she can report to her dad on whether or not it felt like […]
Eric…
As a result, TrackBack spam filters similar to those implemented against comment spam now exist in many weblog publishing systems….
I’m afraid, I’m very afraid. The comments really are scarey, more scarey than Stephen King writes. Sorry, Mr. K. The war being waged is not only against the ME, but against US, you and me and everyone, aren’t people getting that yet? On this site? onmygoodness! and yes, it is, will be - torture - used, provided, and enjoyed against me/you anyone that disagrees with The Policy…eventually. ooops, it’s already happening here. Blindsided and entertained to death by the media, by myths of good and evil, patriotism and religion. Mr. King? Your books, scared teh living daylights out of one/me. brilliant, gorgeous fear of bogeymen, silly childhood fears of evil clowns, twisted minds with a singular purpose, distilled as clear as a drop of water. know what! when I read some of the commnets by these guys? I’m just as scared, very very scared. BUT I still think your short stories are better! remember Mystery Weekend, New Paltz? Tango on….
Experiencing a waterboard torture would bring it all home. Maybe we should waterboard the whole lot of them. What about maiming; throwing caustic poisons…it’s all being done, and has been done by The Good Guys…HA! by not wicked people, but blindsided like mad. in the name of God and Country. Oh, and women being raped in Iran? by our own guys,soldiers, contractors. Truth: stranger than fiction, Mr. K., stranger and much scarier.