Ben Stein On Religious Faith
Published by Fred Soto• November 30th, 2007
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Christmas has arrived and the inevitable seasonal garbage is out.Remember that old issue with Christmas cards that made so much noise in the media a few years ago? The Christmas card debate was about how atheists and non-Christians didn’t agree on the corporate and government manipulation and use of words like “Christmas” vs. “Season’s greetings”.
One of the messages is all encompassing, inclusive, allows everyone to belong. While the other, is relevant only to Christians. Of course, because people have nothing better to do, they have to engage in a war of rhetoric and attack each other over the most trivial and pettiest of details. I know Atheists feel like they’re excluded and discriminated against by Christians and Christians believe “what’s the big deal, it’s just Christmas, it’s as natural as breathing and bleeding,… IT’S CHRISTMAS!”
Now, back to Ben Stein, after all.. that’s probably why you clicked on this article. Here’s the latest viral message being spread around by Christians. It would be nice if it was simply a write up by a media and celebrity personality that encourages love, peace, and kindness during the holiday season. But sadly, it wouldn’t make headlines if it did, now would it?
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
“My confession:”
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what they are: Christmas trees.
Who the heck cares what a damned tree is called? Christmas tree, is this really a controversy that is dividing America when a million Iraqis are dead, thousands of American soldiers are dead, our politicians are insufferable pricks and fascism has arrived in America?
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, ‘Merry Christmas’ to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I agree with this sentiment. I don’t care if some taxpayer dollars go to fund some of these projects. All Americans have their place in society, every American pays taxes, and therefore, it stands to reason that Christians should have their day without having to defend or explain their reasons for believing as they do.
I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.
Here’s where I begin to have a problem with the direction of Ben Stein’s argument. First of all, no one is arguing that America is a “atheist nation.” No one says, lets get the American dollar and write “in Atheism, we do trust”, Not a single person defending “the Constitution that is thrown in the face of religious people”, is arguing that you should be denied the right to practice religion as you see fit. The Constitution to some Americans is almost as sacred as the Bible is to Christians, the Q’uran to Muslims and the Torah to Jews. As such, many people would fight to the death to defend the foundation of this great secular nation.
Now, Christians may get hung up on the word secular, it’s the bad word among the faith and political propaganda artists the way liberal, socialism and communism is to the GOP. They have negative connotations but don’t mean what some pundits try to make you believe they do. Secularism, in this sense means the Constitution is a Godless constitution. The founders had plenty of time to debate the issue, you can turn to the Federalist Papers if you’d like a crash course on what was argued by both sides. In the end, the group of revolutionaries, our Founders decided to keep religion out of the Constitution. By simply reading the safeguards put in, you can see that proponents of faith wanted protections for them to practice their faith. See the establishment and free exercise clause:
First Amendment - Religion Clause
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion [...] or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”).
What the founders wanted to do were two-fold, most Americans can’t understand why, but they did it for a reason.
- They wanted to keep the government and state separated. You know, that concept we like to conveniently ignore when it suits our religious agenda? “Separation of Church and State” The founders, aka “radical terrorists” aka “revolutionaries” escaped King George III (oh the irony) who wanted to impose HIS religious views on the people. They knew, that if they didn’t adequately protect their new nation, we could end up with a government that promotes a single religion. (e.g. Christianity, or a President’s version of Christianity that might occur if Tyranny or Fascism rear their ugly heads in the United States.) Could you imagine how obnoxious this country would be if every four years the national religion changed with the President’s politics?
- Secondly, the founders did have “believers” among them, this is true. Due to the protections granted the State and its citizens to be free from government imposition of religious values on the people, they also wanted to protect religion. The last thing the founders wanted was to have people persecuted for their beliefs as they were under the King. So they put in safeguards to allow people to practice what ever religion they see fit. The government would not have a hand in this, it was to stay clean from interfering with people’s views.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren’t allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.
Nick and Jessica? If I want to worship my Television or the tree outside, that’s my decision and you should keep your nose out of it. The fact that there are political movements in America and that some Americans choose not to participate in your religious world gives you no right to deny them either 1) their free speech rights or 2) their “God-given” right of ‘Free Will’.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it’s not funny, it’s intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham’s daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her ‘How could God let something like this happen?’ (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, ‘I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are,….
Are you kidding me with this… Natural disasters happen, God didn’t shake the world, God didn’t kill a bunch of black people in New Orleans or destroy all of their possessions, albeit some were living very humble lives. If you want to blame someone or people for the plight of New Orleans, you may as well take a look at our terrible federal government response or if you are a sadistic bastard, ask the people of New Orleans why they live in the area to begin with knowing the risks. (assuming they had knowledge that such a catastrophe could happen). I am sick of Americans and people generally using fear to achieve agendas. God is going to murder you if you don’t read the bible or become Christian. God is going to allow airliners to take down buildings in New York if you don’t hate “fags”. Seriously people, wake the hell up, what is wrong with you?
but for years we’ve been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?’
In light of recent events…terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O’Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn’t want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
I guess God had her murdered for not wanting prayer in schools, or maybe some overzealous Christians had her killed “for the greater good”, or maybe, just maybe LIFE HAPPENS. People die, people are killed, evil happens, some people are really thick.
Consider this possibility, you want prayer in schools, you want it sponsored by the State? Fine. Now can we get a podium for Muslims to say morning prayer, too? We had idiots throwing a tantrum and heckling in Congress when a Muslim was allowed to make an all-inclusive, intra-religious prayer in Congress. Before she could utter a word, Christians were trying to deny her the right that they are claiming they are being denied by “Atheists”. Here’s an idea, LET’S KEEP FAITH AND GOVERNMENT AS FAR AWAY FROM ONE ANOTHER AS POSSIBLE. I guarantee you that the likelihood of religious wars, intolerance, killing in the name of God, blaming God for national disasters and catastrophes would all decline.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn’t spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock’s son committed suicide) We said an expert should know what he’s talking about. And we said OK.
I agree with the idea that we not only coddle our children but the law has come down hard against parental discipline. There is so much abuse in families that it seems government had to intervene, but maybe next time it should try to invest in education, children generally, invest in social mobility for lower and middle class families rather than shifting taxes away from them to promote corporate welfare and the well-being of the top 2% of Americans. The other night during the CNN / Youtube debate, someone asked, “What would Jesus do?” I guarantee you that Jesus wasn’t a greedy, hate-filled, prideful bastard, I guarantee you that Jesus would spend his time helping the poor and trying to promote love, intolerance and justice rather than blaming God for people’s shortcomings. In fact, Jesus did say to God, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do…”
Now we’re asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don’t know right from wrong, and why it doesn’t bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves. Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with ‘WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.’
Our children have no conscience, really? They are CHILDREN, they don’t know right from wrong. Only parents can teach them the valuable skills they need to survive. It doesn’t hurt to allow these kids to go out into the world and learn how to deal with reality rather than creating a false reality for them to live in so they can see that bubble burst when they hit 18. You say, “we reap what we sow.” Yeah, exactly, people deserve to die because they don’t know Matthew from Paul.
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world’s going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send ‘jokes’ through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
So, what you’re saying is that millions of people in Iraq deserve to die because they were born on the wrong side of the planet? Do tens of millions of children deserve to starve in the world because they were fools and chose bad or poor parents? Were the people who died on 9/11 and to Hurricane Katrina deserving of death because our actions make God cry? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Stop already, please just stop, you are just contributing to the problem, you are helping no one! It is the promotion of religion at all costs that creates crisis and conflict, people want to kill each other over God, and you allow it with your nonsensical rambling. If you really want food for thought: consider that terrorists blow themselves up using this very same logic!
Are you laughing?
No, Mr. Stein, I am not laughing. I love this time of year for many reasons, my faith, my family, my friends are all important to me. However, it depresses me that you can’t see how your message of “tolerance” is really very much about intolerance, it saddens me that your preaching and admonishment of “evil” is actually very evil. They say the lord works in mysterious ways, well I can tell you that the devil works in very obvious ways and you are doing his bidding.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. But, if you discard this thought process, don’t sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.
Indeed.
My Best Regards.
Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
I grew up Catholic, went through all of the religious hoops of the faith, eventually left Catholicism for a pretty little all-inclusive “Christian” tag. The rest of my family hails from the evangelical Christian faith as do a couple of my best friends. They are all among the best people I’ve known in my life, but there are some aspects of their faith that I can’t bring myself to agree with on principle.
Frankly, I am sick of the filth that institutions of religion impose on humanity and it’s amazing the propaganda that people spread in order to promote their personal faith. Of course, to call oneself Christian means to subscribe to certain tenets of the Bible and accept the good and the bad that comes with being religious. I just don’t know if America, or the world for that matter, can handle the assault on reason and humanity.
Just for clarification, I agree with Ben Stein’s motivation. On the one hand “a tree is just a tree, get over it, dislodge the stick from your anal cavity and join the rest of us for a cup of coffee and Christmas joy.” On the other hand, the line of argument that says “if you aren’t religious, you’re making God pissed off and he is making bad things happen” is just a load of crap. I don’t like fear tactics, I don’t care in what form they come. They have no place in a proper debate on the issues, which it looks like he was making an honest effort to engage in.
tags:christianity, constitution, faith, god, government, intolerance, Religion, rhetoric, tolerance
Fred Soto is an Attorney and Entrepreneur from the Silicon Valley.
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“Of course, because people have nothing better to do, they have to engage in a war of rhetoric and attack each other over the most trivial and pettiest of details.”
Isn’t that what keeps blogging sites like this in business?
It’s true, controversy riles people up, is it hypocritical for me to attack the intolerance of others? Is it intolerant to not accept views that are intolerant or is it rational and sound? Using your logic, how do you stop the vicious cycle when the perception of hypocrisy can roll indefinitely based on bias?
Notice that I was non-discriminatory in my attacks, both “sides” of the issue received my venom, and if it makes you more comfortable for me to write it out: I believe atheists can be just as ridiculous and over-the-top as religious zealots. Both are dangerous positions to take, and both contribute to the decline of American society and the rise of the Fascist State.
Mr Soto, you say and I quote, “The fact that there are political movements in America and that some Americans choose not to participate in your religious world gives you no right to deny them either 1) their free speech rights or 2) their “God-given” right of ‘Free Will’.”
First off, let me say that I am sick and tired of hearing about how everyone else is sick and tired of being persecuted for their beliefs.
If everyone that claims to be persecuted would mind their own business and give no regards to anyone elses lifestyle and/or religious beliefs, there would be no discussion of the matter, everyone would be free to practice their own religion as well as no religion at all. Keep your religion within the walls of your own church, home, or wherever you choose to worship.
I try not to concern myself with religion (I prefer individual spirituality)I tend to want to have some control over my own life, I will be the one to take responsibilty for my actions and I do not try to conform others into living their lives according to my dictates and I expect the same courtesy.
Bottom line is this, if christians do not want others to lash out at them, They need to stop sponsoring and supporting legislation to pass laws that would require others to abide by their beliefs, after all christianity is a choice not a rule.
Now I will be quoting a portion of the quote that I began this response with..
“their “God-given” right of ‘Free Will’.”
To me, it is not a “God Given” right, it is my basic right as an individual human being. God didn’t give it to me and I will challenge anyone that tries to take it away from me in the name of God..Period!
Actually, I was trying to argue your point by speaking to Christians in a language that they’d understand. Part of the disconnect that happens between Atheists and Christians in America is you are both speaking foreign languages. So what I tried to do with this piece is use words that are difficult to deface with typical propaganda that is encouraged by extremism and intolerance. I meant no offense and I understand where you are coming from.
I’m not going to take a side on this one, my response is as multifaceted as yours, Mr. Soto. Although, I certainly agree with your sentiment that your argument should be (and was) catered to the audience it was prepared for (Christian-flavored zealots). That’s a basic requirement for effective public speaking and persuasive speaking.
However, assuming that Snopes.com hasn’t been infiltrated by liberal propaganda ninjas, note that the version of the text you are using has most of the more controversial bits added to the end. It’s not Stein’s original text, which is much more defensible. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/benstein2.asp
The irony is that Stein’s entire point was that people are pushing an agenda, when he really couldn’t care less about these so-called issues. Christians want to call it Christmas, other people get uptight about it. His response, in a nutshell, “I’m a Jew. (implied)My people are a religious football. I don’t care. Neither should you. Let them do their thing. It’s a tenet of our Constitution. Our culture is losing it. I’m sad.” Sounds good to me.
He’s being prudent, respectful, and humble. He’s also making an effective, balanced argument. The irony is that some zealot feels the need to modify it (poorly) to try to buttress some all too common hot-button, childish, and hubristic “nuggets of God’s wisdom” (lightly dusted with an endorsing air of genuine intelligence shamefully stolen from Ben Stein).
Not to be presumptuous, but I have a very succint response to whichever anonymous coward that really sent that e-mail. “Thou shalt not steal.”
your premise is flawed because you are picking apart an urban legend and spam. see here http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/benstein2.asp
quoted: In mid-2006, someone added the following coda (not written by Ben Stein) to this piece. It combines older items about a TV appearance that Anne Graham Lotz (the daughter of evangelist Billy Graham) made just after the September 11 terrorist attacks and the false claim that the son of child care expert Dr. Benjamin Spock committed suicide
I would like to respond to this email forward that I’ve seen floating around the internet recently. It is a propaganda piece which purports to be by Ben Stein. In truth, the majority of the piece is not by Stein (His piece ends after the comment about Nick and Jessica. The rest was cobbled together from anonymous messages circulating on the Internet since late 2001. You can read the original on his Web site). However, since the email is being mass forwarded as is, I am going to respond to it in its entirety.
The Stein commentary begins with an acquiescent anecdote about Christians and Jews, giving the illusion that the message will be one of harmony and goodwill. When I first started reading the email, I thought, ‘It’s about time. What a beautiful, non-discriminatory email encouraging peace and acceptance among humanity.’ However, after the initial two paragraphs, the email quickly turned divisive.
The email was in fact not about unity, but was in fact a poorly veiled attempt to convert readers to religious adherence and to promote the mergence of church and state. After the initial anecdote, the email itself was quite segregatory. It was quick to create a divide between religious and non-religious. Then, proceeded to blame everything from terrorist attacks to Hurricane Katrina on those who do not worship God.
To those of you who have forwarded this email to me, let me first say I am sure you have sent this with the best of intentions, believing you were doing your part to create world peace. But harmony arrives in the form of human kindness, acceptance and compassion, not through segregation or attempts at forced conversion. Stein’s comments about being free to interpret God as we understand him have merit, but the distortion that follows needs to be challenged.
I would ask that anyone receiving this email to deeply reflect on the statements made in this message and consider whether they are truly in the spirit of harmony and peace.
I mean no disrespect. I like you and always will. But I believe it our responsibility to challenge harmful thinking, especially when it arrives under the guise of Godliness. I have added my comments below in blue.
_______
My confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what they are: Christmas trees.
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a creche, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period.
“I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat”
>>America is not an atheist country; however, it does have a secular government. The constitution is very clear about that. The First Amendment explicitly prohibits the government from establishing or controlling religion. This means the government is not allowed to coerce adherence to religion, or to compel the support of religion against an individual’s will. The effect of this arrangement is that Americans are free to worship, believe, and support religion as they see fit. Secular government allow Christians and Jews to co-exist. Before secularism, it was not such a safe thing to be a Jew in a Christian-majority nation.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren’t allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.
>>This is an illogical correlation. You do not need to be religious to reject corporate media culture.
>>Note: This is when Stein’s commentary ends. The rest has been added anonymously by other emailers, under the pretence of being by Ben Stein. ****
Billy Graham’s daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Katrina)”
>>How can one even consider attributing hurricane Katrina to a lack of allegiance to God. Anyone who believes in the New Testament should be horribly offended by such insinuation. Do we liken the flu pandemic of 1918 as message sent by God? More than 20 million people died from that flu. At best, this is thinly-veiled fear mongering. (By the way, the last time I received this email, Graham’s comments were in reference to 9/11).
In light of recent events…terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O’Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn’t want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school.
>>First of all, terrorist attacks are not caused by lack of religion. In fact, they almost always carried out by religious extremists. Second of all, referencing O’Hair’s murder as some sort of backhanded way of condemning atheists is appalling. O’Hair and her children were murdered callously by a man she had exposed for stealing money –not because the United States Supreme Court agreed with her that it was non-constitutional to force bible readings in public schools.
>>Though while we’re on the topic of O’Hair, it is perhaps insightful to note that while O’Hair worked to defend non-Christian children from violence and persecution, those who were adamant about keeping religion in schools responded with aggression (Her son’s kitten was strangled, her home was stoned, and she received several profane letters in the mail, including photos smeared with feces and another that threatened her life: “You will be killed before too long. Or maybe your pretty little baby boy”).
The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
>>Scholars have found little if any original moral thinking in the Bible - the Ten Commandments were laid down by Hammurabi before Moses. Also, while commandments 5-10 do address morality (1-4 do not), admonishments of this kind are found in virtually every culture throughout recorded history.
>> “Do unto others…” is a wonderfully moral precept; however, numerous teachers have preached the same message centuries before Jesus (Zoraster, Buddha, Confucius, Epictetus). And, it is scientific fact that moral emotions (like a sense of fair play and an abhorrence of cruelty) precede humanity itself!
>>All of our primate cousins are partial to their own kin and generally intolerant of murder and theft. They tend not to like deception or sexual betrayal much either. Chimpanzees, especially, display many of these complex social concerns. There are obvious reasons why children treat their parents well and think badly of murderers, adulterers, and thieves.
Morality was not created by the bible. We, as human beings, use our own moral intuitions to decide what it is ethically right. That is why most religious moderates would never stone a non-virgin bride to death on her father’s doorstep (Deuteronomy 22:13-21), or beat the child with a rod (Proverbs 13:24), or murder someone because they are homosexual (Leviticus 20:13), or kill a child who talks back (Leviticus 20:9; Mark 7:9-13; Matthew 15: 4-7), or keep slaves (Leviticus 25:44-46; 1 Timothy 6:1-4), or sell their daughter into sexual slavery (Exodus 21:7-11) or kill their first born as a sacrifice to God (Exodus 22:29-31).
It is our responsibility as humans, to hold ourselves morally accountable and question those convictions which are harmful to our fellow neighbour.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn’t spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock’s son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he’s talking about. And we said OK.
>>I very much doubt that Spock’s ideas about child care (being loving and affectionate towards children rather than refusing to pick them up, kiss them, or hug them because “that would not prepare them to be strong and independent individuals in a harsh world”) were the cause of terrorist attacks. Nor do I think believe that Spock’s recommendations against infant circumcisions because he “could find no convincing reasons for it other than religious rite” were the cause of school shootings. (The rite of circumcision emerges as a surrogate for child sacrifice Exodus 4:24-26).
>>Furthermore, Spock’s son did not commit suicide. Spock had two children, both of whom are still alive today. The fact that thousands of people have forwarded this email without questioning its legitimacy is reprehensible. And even if this had been true, referencing such an awful event is just as appalling as referencing O’Hair’s murder. Get the facts here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock
Now we’re asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don’t know right from wrong, and why it doesn’t bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with “WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.”
>>This is very true. The basic tenet of morality is about not doing harm to others. We need to apply this universal law to our every action.
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world’s going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send ‘jokes’ through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
>>One of these things is harmless, the other is the cause of countless wars and needless persecution.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace. Are you laughing? Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you’re not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
>>There is no question in my mind that any deeply religious person receiving this email has forwarded it on without a second thought in hopes of cohercing adherance to religion. It is much more likely that a non-religious person will hesitate to respond, for fear of persecution.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it… no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don’t sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in. My Best Regards.
>>Simply copying and pasting or hitting the forward button is not engaging in the thought process.
Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
>>This is a forgery. Stein’s words ended above where I noted.